EPISODE OVERVIEW:

Estate attorney Amy Danneil reveals the costly mistakes that can tear families apart and drain hard-earned wealth. In this conversation with Betty Wang, Danneil shares crucial strategies to protect your legacy and loved ones. Learn how to take control of your estate now, before it’s too late – from avoiding probate battles to minimizing taxes. Whether you’re building wealth or planning to pass it on, this candid discussion could save your family from needless conflict and financial stress.Listen in and check out the show notes here.

TIME STAMPS:

[03:09] Comprehensive Estate Plan

• Thorough planning
• Importance for young adults

[24:44] Reviewing an Estate Plan

• How often to review estate plans
• Planning for ageing parents

[32:07] Estate Planning Mistakes

• Misconceptions about estate planning
• Disability planning 

[36:43] Estate Planning Hesitation

• Having peace of mind 
• How to tackle estate planning

[39:12] Finding an Attorney 

• Locating an attorney 
• Using professional networks

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Estate planning challenges: Families often face difficult decisions around inheritance and asset distribution that can lead to disputes and costly legal battles.
• Necessity of regular reviews:Estate plans should be reviewed every few years or after major life events (marriage, divorce, births, deaths). Tax laws and regulations change frequently, as well.
• Strategies for finding attorneys: Research potential attorneys’ estate planning experience, check state bar associations, and verify specialized certifications. 
• Proactive estate planning: Start estate planning early – ideally when acquiring significant assets or starting a family.
• Comprehensive estate planning: Include all essential documents: will, living trust, healthcare directive, power of attorney, and beneficiary designations. Consider tax implications, digital assets, and business succession if applicable.

GUEST INFO: 

Amy Danneil, Estate Attorney

• Website
• LinkedIn
• Want to make sure your adult kids (18 years and older) are protected as they move into the world? Check out Wise Birds Workshop. Promo code of DL50 gives $50 off.          

RESOURCES:

• Join Betty in a free consultation call for your financial goals
• Subscribe to the Betty’s Smart Friends YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Visit my website for more info
• Follow us on LinkedIn

Betty Wang is an investment adviser representative of BW Financial LLC, a registered investment adviser registered in the State of Colorado. Registration does not imply a certain level of skill or training. The views and opinions expressed are as of the date of publication and are subject to change. The content is for informational or educational purposes only, and is not intended as individualized investment advice. This information should not be relied upon as the sole factor in an investment-making decision. You are encouraged to consult with a financial professional to address your specific needs and circumstances.

TRANSCRIPTION:

Betty Wang 00:00:05 Hello everyone! In today’s episode, we are going to talk about something I believe every adult should have, and that’s a comprehensive estate plan. None of us like to think about our own mortality, but today we’re going to talk about why it’s so important for you to have a current estate plan and the critical things you need to be thinking about. I’m Betty Wang, the host of Betty Smart Friends. I’m a certified financial planner who helps women feel more empowered and less alone in their financial lives. We’re so lucky today to have joining us, Amy Daniel Daniel Lau. She has years of experience as an estate attorney and trusted advisor, guiding her clients through all the intricacies of estate planning. What makes Amy different is not only her legal expertise and experience, but it’s her personal and compassionate approach to each and every client. And please welcome Amy Daniel to the show. Hi, Amy. Thanks for joining us.

Amy Danneil 00:01:04 Thank you. I’m happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Betty Wang 00:01:07 Well, let’s start with letting the listeners know a little bit about your background and your journey into estate planning.

Amy Danneil 00:01:15 Okay. So I am licensed in Colorado. I went to law school at Du, and after law school, I started working in environmental and regulatory law. And then I was pregnant with twins. And I left that job and was at home and up at night feeding those little guys. And one night my husband said, we’re going to need a will. Can you do that? And I was thinking, oh my God, like, I’m up in three in the morning feeding babies. And now you’re asking me to like, delve into a whole other area of law that I know nothing about. But the good news is the boys were good sleepers. And so I had hours of time to myself during the days when they were really tiny. And so I started looking into this, thinking, oh, I’ll just, you know, download a will. You know, I’ve got access to different attorneys that could give me a will to draft and just put it together. But then as I started looking into it, I was realizing that it is just so much more complex than you think.

Amy Danneil 00:02:10 And that was 17 years ago. The boys are 17, so I’ve been doing this for a long time now, and I just started helping friends and family members put their estates together, and I’ve just focused on that this, this whole time. But really the sticking piece of it is helping people and really being able to make a difference. And just, I just, I sleep better at night knowing someone has their estate plan in place. So even when people were at the and end of the process and getting people to signing, like every time we get someone signed and I was so happy that they have all their ducks in a row, even if it’s just one person and one family at a time.

Betty Wang 00:02:46 I feel like that too. And my clients have that and I think they feel the relief. It’s nice to have a lot of people know that they’re supposed to have this. They know that they’re it’s part of adulting. But people just put it off because it’s really not. Nobody likes to think about it.

Betty Wang 00:03:01 Can you tell us a little bit about, like, what’s entailed in a comprehensive estate plan? It’s not just a will. What else is involved?

Amy Danneil 00:03:09 Yeah. Like what I learned in, you know, at the very beginning is that it’s not just the document, like you’re you’re working with a professional. When you go have someone else do your estate plan because you’re going to them for the advice, because do it yourself always results in whatever the do it yourself results are. So, you know, the a comprehensive plan is different from a basic plan that every single person has an estate, whether you have $20,000 in a bank account and you own your car, that is your estate. You might not think it’s very much to speak of and you might not, you know, know what’s going to happen with it or really care because you’re feeling like it’s not that much, but really where who is going to get your car? Who is going to get your $20,000 bank account? Where where is your planning? And so from there, all the way to someone who has two homes and a business and five kids and all of that, that whether you own a little or a lot, you have an estate.

Amy Danneil 00:04:06 And so a basic comprehensive estate plan means you didn’t just, you know, fill out a will and, and walk away. You had someone look at, okay, what assets do you have? What things do we need to care about and talk about the dynamics in your family. Talk about who your beneficiaries are or how old are they? What? When do you want them to receive anything? How do you want them to receive anything? Who are the players in implementing your plans? Like what are the family dynamics between naming you know, a brother or sister of your own as guardian for your kids if you’re gone, you know? So thinking about the totality of every piece of what’s happening, that’s a comprehensive plan. And so you wouldn’t know how to do a comprehensive plan. You would know maybe what you want, but or think you know what you want. But a lot of times, you know, you answer one question and then it unfolds a whole bunch of other questions. And so different from a basic estate plan.

Amy Danneil 00:05:03 A comprehensive estate plan is where someone has helped you think through all the critical points of making sure that all the all those areas that you’re not even aware of are touched on and addressed appropriately, from times of disability to guardianship to your assets, and then how everything’s going to flow at death.

Betty Wang 00:05:23 So who do you think should have one? I mean, do you agree? Most every adult should have one. Or is that not really. Is is that too broad?

Amy Danneil 00:05:30 I mean, you probably should. Most people should because you might not think that you need one. But if you’re gone and you left your family a huge mess to to pick up, they’re going to wish that you had one. And I think one thing that I’ve started doing the last several years is helping teenagers, 18 year olds and up start putting their their documents together, because that’s the first time in your life where you really need to realize that there’s no one to take care of you, and you need to spell out for someone else how you want to be taken care of.

Amy Danneil 00:06:00 So everyone who’s 18 needs, at the bare minimum, a medical power of attorney, a HIPAA release, and a general durable power of attorney so that they can name their parents or their family or friend to make decisions for them with their disabled or incapacitated, or even if it’s for a short time, even if it’s just for a car accident or a surgery that you’re taking longer to recover from as soon as you’re 18, that’s kind of when you need to start thinking, okay, someone else will need to step in. If I ever am not able to do things for myself. And so getting that legal literacy when we’re that age helps so much. If we’re 18 and we already have those documents in place, then we’re not. So, you know, it’s not so novel when we’re 25 and getting married and thinking, okay, now we need to step it up. And now someone needs to take a more close look at our joint finances and who we’re naming as beneficiaries. And so you kind of need one your whole life.

Amy Danneil 00:06:55 It’s just stages through your life that you need it. I think if you don’t have real property or if you you really do just have like one bank account, you could probably get away with it not being a terrible mess to leave for your people behind. Yeah, I.

Betty Wang 00:07:08 Think a lot of people don’t realize that the HIPAA laws change how things work. When we all went to college, of course our parents got information. Of course they could visit us, visit us in the hospital. But now, once they’re 18, these things aren’t just given. You know, I had a friend who whose brother had a 21 year old who got in a car accident. The 21 year old was on her brother’s health insurance plan when the brother went to go visit his son. They wouldn’t let him in because the son was still in recovery and he didn’t have the dad didn’t have permission to go see the son or even learn about what was going on. So that was one of those examples that it just really depends on the hospital.

Betty Wang 00:07:57 They’re supposed to be protecting the privacy of the patient. And if the patient is not awake, you need these documents to say, that’s my person who’s speaking for you, I.

Amy Danneil 00:08:08 Know, and that I had a real similar story with a friend whose son was struggling with mental issues, and he tried to take his own life, and he was in a different state. And my friend got a call in the middle of the night, and a nurse in the hospital knew that he had done this. She was he was on life support and oh my God, he didn’t have any documents. But she found his wallet and called, figured out how to call his mom. She went across the street to a 7-Eleven and like, totally broke hospital protocol because she and she almost started crying. She called the other mom and it was just like, I have teenager myself and you, you should need to know that he’s in the hospital and she totally could have gotten fired for doing that. But my friend was like, oh my God.

Amy Danneil 00:08:51 So she was on the first plane to go get to him. And it’s just so sad because it doesn’t have to be that tragic. And I mean, that was a tragic story. It turned out fine ultimately. But like, I think there’s so many parents and I tell people this a lot. For some reason, the most appendectomies like emergency appendectomies happen between 18 and 25. The most mental breakdowns happen between 18 and 25. Like all this tumultuous times that we have during college and post-high school is not just because we’re going to college, it’s because it’s that age break and kind of where we are in our in our world, and it’s just big changes. And if there’s ever a time you really needed someone to step in for you, it can be during those years.

Betty Wang 00:09:35 Yeah. I mean, I definitely think that’s you mean you’ve helped educate me on all the things that we need to be thinking about as our kids get older or, you know, if if you’re estranged from your family and you don’t want your family speaking for you or partnered couples who aren’t married.

Betty Wang 00:09:54 These are really important places to have, especially the medical power of attorney and financial power of attorney. Is that fair to assume?

Amy Danneil 00:10:02 Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s interesting that you’re bringing up the unmarried couples because, you know, there are so many of them for so many reasons. People aren’t getting married, but they’re living together, but they’re not really committed to saying we’re common law, married or not. And so there’s this wiggle room of who who has priority, and particularly where people aren’t close with your partner’s family. There’s can be a real battle over who’s who’s got decision making power and who, if that, you know, that person passes away, where does that person’s assets go? If you don’t have a will in place or some sort of directions in place, like the way Colorado’s intestate laws work and intestate just means you’re dying without a will. The statutory scheme takes hold and tells us what your will will be if you don’t have one. And so that will distribute things maybe to your parents, maybe to your kids if you have them, but definitely not to an unmarried partner unless you’ve specified that somewhere else.

Amy Danneil 00:10:57 So you have to be real careful that you’ve gotten all these gaping holes and they might not even seem gaping. You might, you know, you might be in your world thinking, well, I have my partner and I’ve got my kids, and that’s that. And then you if you were to just take your situation to be evaluated by someone, you might be surprised to find that there’s lots of places where things aren’t actually going where you think they’re going.

Betty Wang 00:11:19 Yeah. What are some special considerations for, say, like widows that say that they are widowed? And what kind of estate planning should they be doing now that they are confronting life on their own without a partner? Are there things that they should be thinking about that’s different than, say, the partner situation that we were just talking about? Hi there. Hope you’re enjoying this episode of Betty’s Smart Friends. I wanted to share a quick money tip with you. The tip? Give each dollar a job. Give every dollar you earn a job. Some dollars will have the job of paying your taxes.

Betty Wang 00:12:02 Some dollars will have the job of paying your mortgage, others saving for retirement. But don’t forget that fun self-care or buying your precious time back are valid and important jobs for your money. The key here isn’t to judge the job or how much goes there. It’s to be mindful of where your hard earned money is going and to make adjustments. If you discover it doesn’t align with your values and your goals. Hope you enjoy the rest of the episode and remember, you’re not alone. Now back to the show.

Amy Danneil 00:12:39 I think the widow piece is really hard because a lot of them in grief situations. The focus is on, you know, cleaning everything up, making sure everything’s organized and adjusting to new life and sort of putting themselves on the back burner while they get through this time. And, you know, they have a plan, they have a will, they kind of know that. And so they that they had with their partner, it’s just that their partner passed first. And so they just kind of focus on get going through the motions and getting through that first year.

Amy Danneil 00:13:09 But really, this is the time where you need to become empowered in so many, in so many ways. If you’re on your own, whether you’re a single person or a widow, you really are focused more on how do I protect myself? Because whether you have kids or not, all of a sudden you don’t have that go to person or that automatic, you know, kind of default person, and you really need to be thinking like, if I’m incapacitated, which friend, which family member, which person is going to be at the hospital with me? It probably should not be your 18 year old kid. It probably should be, you know, another adult who has some life experience that can help you make good decisions. And so being protective about your body, your person, what you want because you are no longer having those pillow talk conversations with your partner about what what you would or wouldn’t want in those situations. So how do your friends or your extended family know what you want? And so that’s protecting your your body, making sure you update your medical power of attorney, making sure that you have a living well in place.

Amy Danneil 00:14:09 But also, I think I was just speaking about empowerment because this is the time where you it’s can be predatory, it can be predatory, where, you know, someone says, okay, you just passed, you inherited a ton of money. Let me help you show how. Show you how to invest this better or let me show you. You know, it’s a real easy change just to, you know, take your husband off, off your accounts and just name all three kids as beneficiaries or or things like that, which seem like a good idea in the moment. But as you get further and further away from that. If you’re involved with the person down the road who is not a good actor. All of a sudden, if you’re in a in an argument with your kids and you decide, I’m going to name this new partner as a beneficiary on my retirement account, you just kind of eliminated your kids as being heirs to you on that particular account without fully thinking through the consequences of the whole thing.

Amy Danneil 00:15:04 And so that might just be one account. But what if that account, you know, appreciates a ton? I mean, you really need to keep an eye on what what’s your overall plan is not just one one thing at a time. And so widows I see and single people I see, I try and convince them to do a trust based plan. Because really, once you put everything in a trust and you do the heavy lifting of transferring your house into the trust, moving your your investment accounts in the trust, and creating a document that really spells out what you want to happen with everything that work of transferring property or transferring assets into a trust takes time. It also means they have to talk with someone like me. It also means they have to talk to someone like you. And so the ability to make good decisions is really supported by your network of people. Instead of you just doing things you know, on your own. And then if you’re in partnered with someone who is saying, you know, you probably should just put me as your beneficiary or a caregiver who’s like, I’m the only one taking care of you these days.

Amy Danneil 00:16:08 Notice that your kids aren’t home. You should put me on that account. If you’ve put everything into a trust, it takes a lot more work to undo what you did. And so the ability for someone to influence you and make decisions a lot harder. And that’s how you’re being protective of yourself and your assets and your plans. Because in a moment where you are calm and thinking about things and getting, you know, professional advice from your financial advisor or your attorney, you are getting the comprehensive planning that you need instead of, you know, making kind of fleet decisions based on an emotion or a certain situation without having the whole thing evaluated. And so I try, I try and, you know, have people, particularly women, but certainly single men too, like, you want you want to make sure that everything’s accounted for in the way that you mean to. And the trust planning, I mean, we can get into that a little bit, but the trust planning helps so much because if you’re single now, you don’t.

Amy Danneil 00:17:05 You have your medical power of attorney maybe reestablished. You have your living will may be reestablished. But who’s going to handle your money and your assets if you’re incapacitated? A general durable Power of attorney document can do that for you. But a lot of times the banks are say things like, oh, well, you didn’t use our internal form or, you know, this documents three years old, or prove to us that, you know, the person you’re here to help is actually incapacitated. They just make it really, really hard to use that. But when your assets have been put into a trust, whoever is you’ve named as your successor trustee or your co trustee is already a known quantity at the bank, already a known quantity with your financial advisor and the financial institutions. And so if you are injured, that person can just step in and take over for you for as long as you need them to. And it’s, you know, just such a more fluid transfer of power on your assets. So when we’re single and you don’t have that partner anymore, it’s, you know, having having a plan in place that really can be a support to you with, with your network of professional advisors, but also just knowing that you put a plan in place that is totally comprehensive of everything that you’re supposed to be concerned about now makes a big, big difference.

Betty Wang 00:18:19 Well, I think a lot of folks, especially folks, single people will say, oh, you know, I thought trusts were for the Uber rich or for people who have a lot of assets, but you’re saying that it’s probably more beneficial to those to single people just because of all these things that you just explained?

Amy Danneil 00:18:40 Yeah, I think I think it’s just more protective all around. And then, I mean, for all single people, I tell them to get a prenup before they move on.

Betty Wang 00:18:49 So I do too.

Amy Danneil 00:18:52 The good news is that once you’ve put all your stuff in a trust, you can’t just add someone on as a joint joint owner without a disrupting the whole plan. And so you’re kind of forcing your own hand and your future partner by saying, you know, we have to do this a certain way. And my, my assets are set aside for me and for my kids. And, you know, yes, I want to provide for you too. But let’s figure out how that that works mathematically.

Amy Danneil 00:19:14 Let’s go talk with the attorney. Let’s go talk with the financial advisor and balance this out so we don’t accidentally, you know, disinherit each other’s kids. Yeah.

Betty Wang 00:19:24 When that happens, I know you and I have both heard not so great stories about these things happen. People forgot to update their will when they break up or get divorced, forget to update their beneficiaries, and that turns into kids grandkids being disinherited. And it’s a really sad situation when you know that wasn’t the intent of the deceased.

Amy Danneil 00:19:47 I know, yeah. I tell this one story about the I think, you know, of the of the bad stories. One one that I was able to rescue was I had this woman client, her husband, she was probably 70. Her husband had died ten years before she came in to see me. She brought in her oldest son with her and said, you know, my husband died. I need to update my will. And, you know, what do I need to do? And so from the document itself, the document said, you know, I if my husband’s gone, I want her son to be the personal representative.

Amy Danneil 00:20:18 But she had four kids, not just this one son, and she wanted all her assets split up four ways. And so that meant whatever the house was, whatever the investments were, she wanted it all to go four ways. But after her husband died, she went with the son to take her husband’s name off the bank account, and she had a couple hundred thousand dollars in his bank account. And the banker said, hey, you know, if you just, you know, put your son son his name on there, you can avoid probate and then it’ll just go to him and you won’t have to worry about it. And, well, that all sounded great to her. But when she told me that at this meeting, I’m like, there’s no way you would know that in her will. Because her will says she wants everything to go four ways. But what she had done by putting her only son’s name on that bank account as the transfer on death beneficiary, is that he was going to get it all.

Amy Danneil 00:21:05 And even if and he was a good kid, he wasn’t.

Betty Wang 00:21:08 Yeah.

Amy Danneil 00:21:09 He even if he would have split it equally amongst his brothers and sisters, that just instantaneously creates this. Why did mom leave this for you and why why are you different? What were you trying to do? Were you, you know, influencing mom? Why didn’t mom love us all the same? Like all those questions when she told me was just falling with this random banker was telling us so and so, you know, thank God she came in and he was horrified. He’s like, oh my God. The his brother and two sisters would have been so mad. And so we cleaned it up. But it’s that kind of stuff where if you’re not paying attention to all the different things that comprise your estate, all the counts, all the assets, and making sure each one ties in the way that you really want your plan to go, then you’re at risk for it falling apart. Yeah.

Betty Wang 00:21:55 I mean, what’s your opinion on that? I’ve not only bankers, but AARP has told its readers that they should.

Betty Wang 00:22:04 They should be adding their son, their daughter to their bank account as joint holders or as transfer and death. I mean, I think that I always, of course, defer to the estate attorney. I don’t practice law, but it from certain tax pieces, it sounds a little hairy. What are your thoughts?

Amy Danneil 00:22:27 Same. I mean, especially because they AARP or whoever is saying this doesn’t know if the reader that they’re writing to has an estate plan in place. Because if you have an estate plan in place and you have your comprehensive review of everything, then you just take words out of this magazine periodical that you got and go make these changes. You just totally undermined your entire plan. And that’s why we do reviews every few years to make sure we haven’t had any, like, crazy changes like this. But your point is correct. Like it changes tax wise. What happens? The other thing from a legal standpoint is if you are 60 years old and you have $100,000 in a bank, and you follow that instruction to add your son on as joint owner, which here’s the pluses.

Amy Danneil 00:23:13 If he’s a joint owner, he can sign for you. He can have access to the money and make payments on behalf of you. You could handle he could handle all the bills for you. And then when you die, it becomes his. So those are the reasons why you might want to do that. But the reason you wouldn’t want to do that is because if you have other kids to worry about, it looks like it’s just your son’s money when you pass away. And then there’s, you know, he might have gift taxing problems if he’s trying to then regift out his siblings shares. But probably the biggest piece legally is that if he gets into a car accident and is sued, that’s he owns that and it could wipe out that $100,000 in an instant. And then there’s there goes your account just because he was a joint owner. So you’re subjecting whoever you’re on joint accounts with. You’re subjected to each other’s liabilities. And so that joint ownership is best between husbands and wives and partners, and then pretty much nobody else unless unless depending on the circumstances.

Amy Danneil 00:24:11 But you should go see go talk to someone about whether that ownership is right or not.

Betty Wang 00:24:15 Amen. I agree. So if that brings up the question of I mean, some people are like, well, I have my estate plan, I’m all set. But when I’m reviewing it, it’s ten years old and there’s been laws, Us significant laws that change tax laws in particular that change how things are passed down. What is your recommendation for how often people should be reviewing their estate plan? I think you should. Having somebody.

Amy Danneil 00:24:44 Yeah, I think you should keep it on your desk. I don’t think you should put it in a safe deposit box or keep it arm’s distance from you. I think if you’re in an accident or something, you’re going to want your spouse or whoever it is to be able to grab your medical power of attorney and your HIPAA release and living well and get to the hospital. So don’t make it hard to get to. But the point of that is, if it’s sitting on your desk, you’re more likely to look at it once a year and just say, like, who are the people who? Who did I name? Did someone I name, you know, end up actually getting divorced this year? Or actually, you know, who who is a trusted person that, you know, I think is maybe making some choices.

Amy Danneil 00:25:22 I don’t want them making any more. Maybe I need to shift them. So looking at it once a year helps I in my practice, I once I help someone sign their documents, I just put a note in my calendar to contact them three years later. And so I will always reach out every three years and make sure that we get a review on the calendar to just look through the documents again, so they don’t have to look at it once a year. But anytime there’s life changes like buying a house, buying more property, selling assets, adding a baby in, you know, and oftentimes it’s just something happening with your extended family or friends that you’ve named to be key personnel in your plan, like someone else is incapacitated or someone else has moved, or someone else is dealing with a sick child, or sick somebody in their family and wouldn’t have the capacity to be a guardian or be a trustee for your kids anymore. So every few years for sure.

Betty Wang 00:26:15 Yeah. And I mean, if if you have a financial advisor, you know, I offer this, but we have a, a vault, a secure vault.

Betty Wang 00:26:22 So and I tell clients that if you’re at the hospital and you need something, I can send it to you immediately. Or you can. You can get to it if you have web access. And the other piece is it’s on my tickler to review every three years just to say, hey, have you reached out to your estate attorney to look at this? Because there are some very old estate plans out there that, you know, your kids are older now or your situation is different. The things that you’ve been saying or now with these inherited IRA rules, the taxability of that, and we don’t need to go into that. But there are definitely changes that have happened in the last five years that can really throw a wrench into people’s what they think it’s done and it’s not.

Amy Danneil 00:27:10 Yes, that’s exactly right. I see it myself.

Betty Wang 00:27:13 So what do you recommend for it? As we’re all getting older, our kids are not only getting older, but our parents are getting older. What have you been saying in terms of planning for parents people with elderly parents that they they may care for or help financially.

Amy Danneil 00:27:31 It goes back to being protective of them in a couple different ways. So seeing I mean our parents, I don’t know. I’m sure yours are like mine. They don’t want to talk about. There are many situations, all a big secret. Yeah. But, you know, is there enough money there if they needed to be on long term care and if there isn’t, and then there’s a chance that they might need to be supported by Medicaid. Do we want to do planning ahead of time to remove assets from their from their ownership so that, you know, down the road they could make themselves eligible for Medicaid so that in a nursing home situation doesn’t create a poverty situation for them. Also, making sure that all of those medical powers of attorney general, powers of attorney are up to date so that their adult kids can step in and handle everything for them. And this is where trust planning again, helps so much, because if you’ve done all the legwork of putting your property and everything into a trust, and you are still the trustee, but you’ve named your adult kids who you love and trust to manage everything for you, then truly.

Amy Danneil 00:28:37 And I had a client do this a couple of years ago. She it was she found out she had cancer. She was going to pass. She did pass. But the six weeks before were so easy because she was just like, you know, I’m just going to pass the reins over to my son. He’s now the trustee. He handles everything. And then when she passed, there was no hoopla. It was just he was doing the same role that he was doing for the last six weeks for her. And he was able to distribute everything to his brother and sister really quickly. There wasn’t a court process. There wasn’t a probate. It was just really just really nice and convenient. And so he could handle things while she was ill. He could handle things immediately after she passed because he was the successor trustee. And it just was not. It was a big deal to me because it was so not a big deal to him. And I am really excited to see that play out the way that it is.

Amy Danneil 00:29:26 That’s how it should play out.

Betty Wang 00:29:27 Well, people don’t realize what a mess it is and how much bureaucracy you have to go through. If there’s no I mean, there’s bureaucracy no matter what. I mean, even if you have everything buttoned up, but if the if it’s not buttoned up and there’s every financial institution has their own way, as you said, and their own opinion on how things should go. And they all call things, they have different names for the same things. And that can be so frustrating. So it’s not it’s not an honor to be somebody’s personal representative. It is or executor. It’s really it’s a lot of work. So I tell clients, if you’re not going to do the state plan for yourself, do it for a loved one, because they’re the people who are going to be, no matter what, they’re going to have to get through it. Right. If you can make it easier or harder on them.

Amy Danneil 00:30:23 Yeah, I was just thinking of a client that he was an only child and his his age and his parents died within six months of each other.

Amy Danneil 00:30:31 And they had an iPhone, iPad. And he he was not a mac person. and that that iPad had every picture of him as the only child from his, from his entire childhood and his adulthood. Like that’s where they kept all his pictures. But I had done the parents planning, and so everything went directly to each other and directly to him, and the probate wasn’t needed, which was nice. But then when he tried to get into the Mac or the the iPad, he couldn’t get in because he didn’t have access, because he didn’t have their digital password. He didn’t wasn’t able to get in. So he contacted Apple and they told him he needed to go through probate to get, you know, a court authority to get into this iPad, that he was the one that uploaded the pictures to. And he’s like, whatever, I don’t need these pictures. And he’s like, I’m not spending, you know, $4,000 in probate to get my childhood pictures. And I as a mom, I was like, oh my God, you’re my mom would be awesome.

Amy Danneil 00:31:29 But that was his choice. And I was so frustrated because his parent, I told him, you know, get, get do your digital assets, make sure he has access to everything so he can get into them and into your accounts and do things. And that was the one thing that they really, you know, kind of let loose. And it was such a bummer. I think he was fine. I think I was more upset about it.

Betty Wang 00:31:50 Yeah. As moms were a little, a little more sentimental about these things and pictures of our kids. What other common mistakes do you see? Or holes in people’s plans when they come to you? I think I mean, other than the big one, than than not having anything, right?

Amy Danneil 00:32:07 You know, I think the biggest thing is people feel like doing an estate plan means they have to have a certain amount of money and that they’re not anywhere close to dying soon. And the reality is, like the humans have 100% death rate. Like we’re not escaping this.

Amy Danneil 00:32:23 So yes, you will need that plan someday. But what’s happening to you before that day is could be a perfectly happy, healthy life. But if there’s any sort of disability in there, any. I mean, we could you could be in a skiing accident in two weeks. You could get, you know, hit by a car. There’s so many things happen that we just don’t we really don’t know what’s happening the next day. We really don’t. And I think the saddest stories are when someone has not done the disability planning, like, yeah, on all the life insurance they’ve all done the they have a will or they’ve Todd or Pod their accounts, but they have not done anything for themselves in terms of what happens if I lose my autonomy, like do, if I’m not able to use my legs anymore and I can’t speak for some reason, who’s going to help me? Who’s going to take care of me? How will I communicate what I what my wishes are, and who’s going to be fighting over what they want because I know my parents will fight it for me.

Amy Danneil 00:33:21 But what if my spouse wants me to do wants to do something else for me? Like, that’s the kind of stuff where, you know, a court does have to intervene if people are at odds with each other and there’s no instructions. And so this is the type of thing that just destroys families and pulls everybody apart, because everyone’s trying to do what they think is right for the person that they all love so much. But no one can find the commonality. And meanwhile, the person that’s been injured and isn’t able to communicate for themselves or do anything for themselves is, you know, the person that really, you know, it’s kind of their fault. They left them a mess that their whole family has to deal with and involve the court system and deplete their, their assets and their their wellbeing for them. It’s just really sad. So I think, I think the main thing is just making sure that you, you aren’t just thinking about dying and you’re thinking about all the things that happen in between.

Betty Wang 00:34:14 Well, I think that’s really important, right? Like some people think the estate or comprehensive estate planning is just about the money, but it’s really not. It’s about if you’re incapacitated and if you, you know, die. And it’s about the money and it’s about your care and it’s about, you know, maintaining not only what you want, but also sort of giving directions to people so that they don’t have to guess. Because you’re right, like, families might have different opinions, loved ones. And that can get when it comes to your care. They’re doing it out of the best interest for you, but then they’re going to start fighting with each other. And that’s nobody wants that. Yeah.

Amy Danneil 00:34:53 And that goes back to the protective piece that I was touching on when we were talking about widows and single people. We should include widowers, too. Yes, but but the thing is, you’re busy thinking I have a lot of clients that are like, we’ve had kids now we need to do this planning or we’ve were, you know, remiss for not having done it.

Amy Danneil 00:35:13 Because we have kids, because we know they need a guardian. You know who needs a guardian is yourself. Because if something happens, you want. Who do you want to take care of? You. And this is where those battles come up. Because if you haven’t stated that if I’m in a terrible incapacitated situation, this is the person, then it could be a judge. Just deciding that someone else is going to be a caretaker is better for you than another caretaker. And it’s the same as you’re picking your own guardians for your children. If you don’t name a guardian for your children, your brother in law that you can’t stand, that’s, you know, worth a million bucks and can hire all the legal teams he wants because he looks fabulous on paper and you don’t like him, or, you know, he’s married to your sister, you don’t like either of them, and you don’t want them being around the kids they present to a court. Like the obvious choice. Meanwhile, your brother, who’s super close with your kids and is a great uncle to them, you know, has been down on his luck and doesn’t have a great job.

Amy Danneil 00:36:11 And it has, you know, doesn’t have great credit. Those are the types of things that the court’s looking at when they’re making determinations of who would be guardian for your kids. And so you really your kids need a guardian. You need a name, a guardian. It’s all about being protective. And like you’re saying, just making sure that you’re not leaving anybody with a mess.

Betty Wang 00:36:30 What do you tell people who are super hesitant or intimidated about discussing an estate plan? I mean, because if we know that there’s a lot of people out there that it’s overwhelming, they don’t want to think about it.

Amy Danneil 00:36:43 Tell them it’s like going to the gym. You’ll feel better after you did it, no matter what. I know. I definitely feel for that. And I think after doing this work for so long, for me it it might look transactional, like, oh, I’m just used to putting these plans together for people because I’ve seen a lot of things, but I really, really understand not wanting to be there, not wanting to sit and talk about dying.

Amy Danneil 00:37:05 So I did get a compliment a few years ago from who happened to be an anesthesiologist, so it meant a lot. But he’s told me that my my process was casual and painless, like I should make a t shirt. I don’t know, I try and just let people talk through their concerns and talk to each other. Talk to me. And it’s conversational like this. Like, okay, you bring up this topic. Have you thought about these six things? And then that takes us off on another tangent. But just like just having it be a conversation where you can actually have answers instead of googling and trying to read what the answer should be. Because at the end of every single one of the articles you’ll find on Google, it says something like, please talk to an estate attorney about your situation, and you can just skip all that and go talk to someone about it and get your answers right away. And I think you just you just start feeling better and feeling more empowered the same way they do when they visit you.

Amy Danneil 00:38:00 You know, like they might not want to talk about their finances, but when they go sit and then they kind of feel like, oh, we do. We’re kind of put together and we have we’re organized and we’ve got Betty, Betty on our on our side. I think people just feel better when they have have the help, instead of trying to figure it out on their own.

Betty Wang 00:38:17 I agree. Now how can listeners find you? What’s the best way to contact you if they’re interested in learning more?

Amy Danneil 00:38:25 Email is great. Phone’s great. My website is Daniel law.com. My last name is spelled strange and I blame my husband, so it’s it’s d a n n e I l l a w.com. But I’m in the Denver area. I work in Colorado and I’d love to hear from anybody. If you have questions or thoughts or concerns I’m happy to answer them.

Betty Wang 00:38:51 And what about listeners who aren’t in Colorado? How do you recommend they find someone like you with? I mean, I would say, again, it’s your personal not only your legal expertise, but it’s this personal, warm approach that you have that I think clients, my clients in particular, really enjoy and find out what painless and And casual.

Betty Wang 00:39:12 What do you recommend if they’re in the market for somebody and they’re not in Colorado for their sights?

Amy Danneil 00:39:18 I don’t know about the site. I mean, I don’t know because I actually don’t know the answer to that question. But I would start with your friends, like find out who had a good experience with somebody else. Talk with your financial advisor. Your financial advisors typically know several estate planning attorneys. Word of mouth, just like everything else, seems to be the way to go. And when you’re meeting with someone you know, you want to know what their fees are going to be up front. And you want to know, you know, what’s included in your plan and make sure you’re getting all the documents included. Because even though it’s not about the documents, you still want to be walking away with everything. Out of state people. I guess that’s one thing that I, as you probably experienced this too. It’s like once you start engaging professionals to help you do things that you don’t know how to do or don’t want to do yourself, you kind of are exposed to this network.

Amy Danneil 00:40:05 So my clients, it’s fun because they’ll be like, all right, my daughter is getting married. She needs a prenup. Who do you recommend? And then I can recommend my favorite family law attorney that I love working with in Denver. And so it’s whether it’s an employment issue or a divorce issue. Once you start bringing those professionals into your world, you kind of have a little bit of access to other highly recommended professionals that you might, you know, you might not need now, but now. Now, if you’ve done your estate plan, you’ve done your financial plan. You kind of have access to to other people. And so that’s a little carrot for getting people to do their work too.

Betty Wang 00:40:41 Yeah. No, that is true. And so my closing question to all guests is how do you maintain your own personal balance and peace when you’re obviously doing this good work. You have a family. What do you do to to maintain your balance and peace?

Amy Danneil 00:40:58 I like exercising, I like yoga.

Amy Danneil 00:41:01 I love listening to a podcast and working on a puzzle. And so that’s kind of my relaxed mode when I’m have some free time, so I ski and just try and spend a lot of time with those 17 year olds who are almost out the door soon, and I think I have a 14 year old also. So it’s all it’s all spread.

Betty Wang 00:41:21 Out a little.

Amy Danneil 00:41:21 Yes, all going so fast. But yeah, just trying to be present with them and do all my other activities so that I’m out there taking care of myself for them.

Betty Wang 00:41:30 Yeah. And what sort of hobbies or interests do you have? You know, I’m asking this question because a lot of the studies show that in retirement, if you have a particular passion or hobby, that you’re much happier. I mean, it sounds like you already have kind of a wider range of hobbies, but is there anything that when you retire or any of these hobbies that you’re like, oh, I think I’ll spend more time doing that when I retire?

Amy Danneil 00:41:55 My number one thing I want to get better at when I retire is taking care of plants.

Amy Danneil 00:41:59 They really want to understand them.

Betty Wang 00:42:01 I kill them too.

Amy Danneil 00:42:03 I just I shouldn’t kill them. I grow other things really well and like I pay attention, but I just can’t read them and I feel like I, I don’t know. There’s a book called The Secret Life of Plants, and I want to read that and then become a better plant mom. And so that’s a goal. Hopefully I’ll do that before I retire, but we’ll see. Skiing. We’ll we’ll keep skiing. Keep jogging. Keep reading, keep puzzling. I don’t know traveling I love traveling. Do you do.

Betty Wang 00:42:29 The same puzzle over and over? Once you’re done, you’re done. And you trade I trade. Yeah. I’m done, I’m done.

Amy Danneil 00:42:35 So I’ve tried doing them a couple times. We were traveling. I don’t think.

Betty Wang 00:42:38 I would like that. I’m done too. I just was curious.

Amy Danneil 00:42:42 No, we were trapped in the mountains last year when there was that big snowstorm that closed the highways. We were there for five days and we only had one puzzle.

Amy Danneil 00:42:49 And so we did it three times.

Betty Wang 00:42:52 I was.

Amy Danneil 00:42:53 Like, please burn this.

Betty Wang 00:42:54 Box.

Amy Danneil 00:42:57 Ever again. So yeah, I don’t do it more than once at all.

Betty Wang 00:43:00 Yeah. For you to a good home. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your great knowledge and tips. I really appreciate it.

Amy Danneil 00:43:09 It’s fun talking with you. Thank you for having me. It’s so fun.

Betty Wang 00:43:12 Talk to you later. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Betty Smart Friends. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation and that you learn something new. You can connect with us on social media to stay updated on future episodes. Share your thoughts and join our community of smart friends. You can find us on Instagram at Betty Financial, and don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode! If you are feeling ready to be more empowered and less alone in your financial life, please schedule a complimentary 15 minutes with me. The link is in the show notes. Please see the show notes for important disclosures regarding BW financial planning and this episode.

Betty Wang 00:43:57 Until next time, remember you are not alone. We got you.