EPISODE OVERVIEW:

Want to unlock the secrets of entrepreneurial success and tax-savvy wealth building? Don’t miss this power-packed episode where Betty sits down with Lisa Isom, the CEO of Minerva Group, who traded her corporate ladder for an entrepreneurial launchpad. Lisa shares the financial wisdom she wishes she’d known sooner, including valuable tax strategies. Whether you’re dreaming of breaking free from the 9-to-5 or already navigating the entrepreneurial waters, this conversation is your roadmap to smarter money moves and sustainable success.

TIME STAMPS: 

[05:30] Career Pivot

• From genetics to accounting
• Starting a home-based business

[13:01] Building a Flexible Business

• Setting clear business goals
• Creating work-life balance

[23:44] Growth Strategies

• When to make first hires
• Essential business skills

[34:03] Financial Planning

• Tax strategies for entrepreneurs
• Medical expense considerations

[46:07] Business Relationships

• Building a professional network
• Money conversations

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Dream Big, Plan Smart: Why successful people don’t just chase dreams – they map them. Learn how setting crystal-clear goals from day one can transform your business trajectory.
• Know Your Superpower: Discover the art of leveraging your natural talents while strategically developing the skills that will take your business to new heights.
• Financial Wisdom Matters: Get ahead of the game by partnering with financial professionals early – because the right guidance can help avoid tax headaches.
• Master Your Boundaries: Transform your work-life rhythm by setting boundaries that protect your energy and fuel your success.
• Power Your Circle: Build a tribe of fellow entrepreneurs who get it.

GUEST INFO: 

Lisa Isom, CEO, Minerva Group

• Website
• LinkedIn  

RESOURCES:

• Join Betty in a free consultation call for your financial goals
• Subscribe to the Betty’s Smart Friends YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Visit my website for more info
• Follow us on LinkedIn

TRANSCRIPTION:

Betty Wang 00:00:06 Hello everyone. In today’s episode we’re talking taxes and what you should be thinking about when it comes to your taxes. We’re so excited to have here with us Lisa Isom, the CEO and founder of the Minerva Group. Lisa’s journey began in 1994 when she started a home based accounting business to be more available for her three children. Fast forward to 2011, she officially launched the Minerva Group. Under Lisa’s leadership, the Minerva Group has grown from a small firm with a handful of clients to a thriving business, helping companies at all levels of their financial health. Their services range from bookkeeping and tax preparation to strategic financial advising, in addition to tax tips. We’ll talk about Lisa’s challenges as an entrepreneur and mother and the advice she gives to other women. We’re so lucky to have Lisa here today to share her remarkable journey and the incredible work she does. She’s my hero. Please welcome Lisa Isom to the show. Hello, Lisa.

Lisa Isom 00:01:05 Hey, buddy. Thanks for having me. It is truly an honor. I’m not just saying that.

Lisa Isom 00:01:10 You are one of my favorite people. And I’m not just saying that either.

Betty Wang 00:01:15 I pay her. I pay her to say that. I don’t know. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I know that the Minerva group, the name has a special meaning. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Lisa Isom 00:01:26 Yeah. When I was looking to officially give my company a name, I really didn’t want something. That was my name. My last name. Anything that’s traditional. Being a woman that started an accounting firm in the 90s. That alone was a big jump. That still can come up as an issue. And so I wanted something that was just had a bigger meaning to me, but then also gave a little mystery to what we are and what we do. So my uncle, when I was a small child, he called me Minerva. And as a small child I thought it was hideous and I hated it. And then one day I found out that she is the Roman version of Athena, who is a powerful, you know, goddess of wisdom.

Lisa Isom 00:02:11 And it just resonated with me that, you know, going out and doing something that was nontraditional for women. But it should have a powerful name that is about a woman. So that’s where we got the Minerva group.

Betty Wang 00:02:25 I love that. So were you just a super smart, precocious child? Could he just see the strength in you already? I mean, that’s sort of crazy.

Lisa Isom 00:02:36 Yeah, I’m not sure, actually, that that was his meaning. He was a huge jazz person, like, loved all kinds of different jazz artists and had a gigantic collection of jazz. My brother’s nickname was Arbuckle. And so my brother’s version of it is that both Arbuckle and Minerva were famous jazz people. I am going with that. I was just super precocious.

Betty Wang 00:03:01 And yes, you were super suggestive. I don’t know where that word came from. Yeah. I mean, most people have nicknames like Button or sugar, bug and cookie.

Lisa Isom 00:03:12 Like cute names. Yeah. Not some weird name.

Betty Wang 00:03:15 Yeah. Right.

Betty Wang 00:03:16 Right. But Minerva is pretty. Yeah. Hardcore. Yeah. What brought you to accounting? It is a very male dominated. I don’t know if it’s so much so, but it’s very much like now I work with women in tech or even in the financial services industry. It’s still predominantly male. Is that the same for accounting for you?

Lisa Isom 00:03:35 Actually, it really is. But when I went to college, I thought I was going to be a doctor. Like, I love that I thought I’d be a geneticist because I’m fascinated with genetics, but also like the people aspect of that. So to me, it was marrying like a couple of my skills with my interests. But back then you had to go to MIT, really, to become a geneticist. And I realized quite quickly that it wasn’t meeting the rest of my goals when I wanted to have children, when I wanted to, you know, just move on with my life. Also super expensive. And I wasn’t sure that I was. Well, I’m quite sure I’m not MIT material.

Lisa Isom 00:04:10 So with all of those things against me, I was like, well, maybe I should regroup. So I came back to Denver and was working at the Women’s Center at Red Rocks Community College part time, going to college part time, full time. And I heard about a job opening at a CPA firm. So I thought, what the heck? I went applied. He had me do a test. I told him I know nothing about accounting and frankly did not think accountants were very exciting. So the thought of working with them was not like, woo hoo! I’m going to go work in a CPA firm. It was like, oh, I can get through this. Yeah, I can do anything. Got in there, took the test, failed miserably, but I asked him questions about it and for some reason he decided to hire me. I found I had an amazing knack for numbers and just, you know, how it all worked within the new emerging computer side of accounting. And he paid for classes for me to go to school down at CU Denver.

Lisa Isom 00:05:06 And really, that’s where it all started, was falling into it. Wow.

Betty Wang 00:05:10 That’s. Yeah. That isn’t quite the journey. Yeah. From geneticist to accountant to business owner. Well, it sounds like you started your home based business again, too, because you had three kids. And were you just working too many hours at the firm? Yeah. That you started at.

Lisa Isom 00:05:30 So the firm I started at, we had been working. You know, during tax season. Six days a week, sometimes seven, 12, 14, 16 hour days. I would bring a loaf of bread, a pound of roast beef, because we only had a teeny tiny fridge and some condiments. And that is really what I ate. Lunch and dinner. Day after day after day. And then I found myself pregnant. and my daughter was due in January, which is an accountant’s nightmare. That is our worst time starting mid January. Her birthday’s January 12th, so she just nailed it. As far as timing wise.

Lisa Isom 00:06:05 And I just went to the boss and said, I can’t do these hours with a newborn. And he said, well, we need you to do these hours even if you have a newborn. So that’s when I was young enough to not really think about consequences or what how this would work. I started the business and he gave me about five hours a month worth of business, because they really did not like going out and training clients and installing software and doing all those things, which was the highlight of the job for me. So I was able to peel off that teeny bit and then just hit the streets talking to people I knew to clients that he said, oh gosh, I think you could do a little more for them. And that’s how it started.

Betty Wang 00:06:46 Wow. And all with the newborn?

Lisa Isom 00:06:48 Yes, all with a newborn. And then three and a half years later, I had my son and then gave myself a nice little break before I had my youngest, who is 11 years younger than his sister.

Betty Wang 00:06:58 Wow. Well, I mean, you know, I still think it’s a shame that we have to ask this question. You know, how did you do it with three kids? But I do think it’s super relevant. I mean, you and I talked about this with being mothers. We have the guilt. And I’m not saying that men don’t, but especially at the time that you were having children, men weren’t partners as much as maybe they are now. Right. How did you do that? Were you going on client calls with your baby attached to you? I mean, how did you deal with that? Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:07:29 And absolutely. That’s what I was doing. I was back working a few days after giving birth, which had his own challenges, but worked with my personality. Both of my older kids went to clients in baby carriers and slept at clients offices, and it did all that for about six months. Luckily, I had amazing parents that helped out and made it easier. And then I became a single mom.

Lisa Isom 00:07:53 When my youngest was just about two years old. So one time I had a kid in each school that I was taxiing around, so it was super challenging getting up early in the morning, then getting kids ready, getting them out the door, taxing them and then working in between. So I felt like, you know, sometimes I was up until two in the morning working. And my kids are really well trained. I mean, I can still give them a little finger up and they know, shush, moms busy. Which as adults, I’m sure they’re like, really mom? Like, why are you still using that? It’s your.

Betty Wang 00:08:26 Shorthand.

Lisa Isom 00:08:27 Yeah, exactly. They’re great kids and it really helped. But it still was taking the firm that I had built to bring in that time. So I was able to volunteer for all three of my kids for, like, every Friday or every other Friday, half a day. You know, I built in that time and really it helped me design the firm that I now have that gives that flexibility to my employees and gives them the opportunity to their life’s not this job.

Lisa Isom 00:08:58 It’s a job. I mean, they’re amazing at the job. We try to make it a great culture, but really we want them to have life. And that’s why we’ve put the culture together. We have, based on what I went through as a mom and a single mom with three kids, did.

Betty Wang 00:09:12 You ever want to quit?

Lisa Isom 00:09:13 Oh, gosh. Absolutely.

Betty Wang 00:09:16 I mean, I mean, because when you’re on your own, you have your you have to pay for insurance for you and your three kids. That’s really, really expensive for people who don’t know that, who work at corporate America. What did you do when you had those hard times? Yeah, and.

Lisa Isom 00:09:32 The Great Recession was horrible for me. We had had clients since I had started. I had clients that were at an age where they were five years from retirement or things like that, and it was advising them to close their business because it just didn’t make sense that they were working so hard and things didn’t look good. Or you know what they thought they could sell the business for.

Lisa Isom 00:09:54 It had evaporated. So I had to let go to employees and on my own. And they were horrible times where I took jobs just for grocery money to make sure that my boys, because my daughter at that time was in college, were going to be okay. And I had a second job selling tutoring, like I just did what I had to, which is, I think what so many single moms need to do. But then, you know, really looked at that when probably about eight and a half, nine years ago when I mentally gotten through the Great Recession and thought, well, I could go get a job. But after being self-employed for almost 31 years, back then minus eight, it was like, well, what kind of job could I do and handle? And I realized that’s not really a great option. I’ve been on my own too long, and so that’s when I decided to grow the firm and, you know, really put time and effort to get it to where we are now size wise.

Betty Wang 00:10:50 Gosh, you deserve all the success that you’ve had. Oh my gosh. Well, that’s just a long journey that I know that other women go through. But it’s always. I mean, I think a lot of I started my own business. The same reason because of the flexibility and control it allows us to have over our schedule and our time with our kids. We’re lucky to have people like you who create that atmosphere for your employees, because most firms don’t. No matter what they say, they really don’t give that employee flexibility that we as moms or as parents crave. Right.

Lisa Isom 00:11:26 Yeah. I mean, I think things have come a long ways. I mean, I’m I’m so excited to see that, you know, paternity leave is becoming more and more common and that people really do take into consideration, you know, giving people more flexibility, less hours. But it’s still especially in the accounting world, it’s still an issue, which is why we’re finding that people aren’t going to school to be accountants, right? Or if they go into accounting, they don’t stay in accounting because it’s just brutal.

Lisa Isom 00:11:53 So I think there’s a lot more work that needs to be done in this profession to make it more friendly for for women, make it more friendly for, you know, just anyone who wants to have a life outside their business. And I also just think it’s interesting how I will still have, as you know, the founder and CEO of Minerva Group. I’ve got an amazing COO. And even though I meet with almost every one of our clients to see if they’re a good fit for us, I will still have client conversations and they’ll say, gosh, can you run that by Joseph thinking that he is the boss, or will refer to all the women that work for me as bookkeepers and the men as accountants. So there is still this underlying gender bias. Even in today’s times, it was way more prevalent 30 years ago. But it’s still there and, you know, still needs to be worked on.

Betty Wang 00:12:40 Yeah, I mean, it comes up in our industry too, to where somebody asked a client.

Betty Wang 00:12:45 Oh, so you have a finance guy, too? And she said, no, I have a finance gal like, hooray! Good for you. So you decided to start your business because it just you were ready to grow. You were ready to to build something.

Lisa Isom 00:13:01 Yeah. I really felt like I had been, you know, working this job in this profession, really to support my kids and to give me that flexibility. I needed to raise them. I had a client, one of my very first clients, when my daughter was a baby and the husband was, you know, a business manager for a big large company that’s well known in Denver. And one of the first things Larry said to me, and remember, I was like 24 years old. He said, well, you know, what is your exit plan? And I said, gosh, I don’t know, like I just started this business. And he said, get a job if you don’t have an exit plan because a job is going to be a lot easier than the journey you’re on.

Lisa Isom 00:13:40 So make sure you figure out what your end game is. Otherwise, don’t bother doing this. And that really stuck with me. And I realized, you know, that 8 or 9 years ago that my exit plan wasn’t going to happen if I didn’t start getting really aggressive in growing the business or again, that I should go get a job.

Betty Wang 00:13:58 What skills do you feel like you need to be a successful entrepreneur? I mean, you and I have talked about I never thought of myself as an entrepreneur. I didn’t think of an exit strategy at the time. It was more. I really want to help women. I really love financial planning and I need flexibility for my kids. There was no exit plan like and no sales training marketing ability like. What skills do you feel like you needed to to build a successful business? And what? I’m sure you had a lot of them already. But what kind of education or help did you get to help you be the successful and have this Company with what, ten employees now? I believe.

Lisa Isom 00:14:42 We’re at 17 or 18.

Betty Wang 00:14:44 Now. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it’s pretty amazing.

Lisa Isom 00:14:48 Yeah, we grow about 30 to 40% a year historically since we decided to start growing. So yeah, we’re pretty aggressive with our growth. But I think that is a testament to our culture for our employees and just how we have relationships with our clients. And now, of course, I cannot remember your question, buddy.

Betty Wang 00:15:05 What skills do you feel it’s important for entrepreneurs to have people who are women, who are thinking about starting their own business? Again, I as somebody who’s was a I call myself a reluctant entrepreneur. What should women be thinking about or what skills, if they don’t have them now, should they go get or seek help for?

Lisa Isom 00:15:26 Well, and I think a lot of things were born with and recognizing what we do have as gifts that are existing. So for me, I’ve always been loving meeting new people and just developing relationships. That type of thing. So I think that knowing what you have and what you’re missing is super important.

Lisa Isom 00:15:46 I also used to think, oh, self-help books, business books. How gross like this is. Why would you do this? Why would you spend your free time learning about things that somebody else is just telling you? That may or may not even be accurate? And now I’m reading business books for the last umpteen years on a regular basis to figure out those skills. And as you’re scaling a business, especially understanding what you’re missing and how to fill those. So even when you’re small and you’re not adding employees, but you’re adding consultants or people that can assist you in different ways. I’m not a marketing person. That is not my skill set. I’m a great networker. I’m a great relationship builder. But to do true marketing, I kind of glaze over and don’t jump into whatsoever. So I think acknowledging that and realizing that I was never going to learn how to be a good marketer because it just can’t keep my attention. So anytime we’ve looked at marketing, it has always been a member of my staff.

Lisa Isom 00:16:44 As we grew, or looking at consultants or marketing firms to assist because I knew that was not my skill set. So I think being curious is hugely important. Sometimes I feel like people are like, okay, this is the nuts and bolts and they just pay attention to the structure, but they don’t pay attention to those soft skills that they’re bringing or need to bring into a business. And so the passion will get you really far. But if these aren’t your skill sets and you don’t have someone help with the finances, you don’t have someone help with marketing. You know those items that are just a waste of your time, basically. I had a gal tell me one time years ago that you shouldn’t be doing anything if you don’t love it, and that your hourly rate is more than. So if you are not into bookkeeping and you’re a consultant making $225 an hour, do not do the bookkeeping that’s costing you. You know, so much less than that. Same with cleaning your house, doing grocery shopping if you love it.

Lisa Isom 00:17:40 And that’s, you know, soothing to you or whatever that is, that’s great. But don’t force yourself into doing everything because that’s part of the thing you have to give up as an entrepreneur is doing everything, and DIY is not the best way to be building a business.

Betty Wang 00:17:59 Words to my ears. Yes. How did you let go of that control. Especially when you’re building from your bootstraps. Of course you’re like well I can’t afford a bookkeeper at this point. I can’t afford this, which is fair. But when you get to the point where you that’s no longer as much of an issue, some parts of it is this has been my baby. This is my control. Like how how were you able to let go of some of those pieces? Or was it easy for you? Maybe it was. You’re more of a delegator than some people.

Lisa Isom 00:18:27 Yeah. Well, I think it was, you know, really listening to people talk about their own struggles with bookkeeping, for example, because that was what I you know, what we do when people would say, gosh, I’m doing bookkeeping like eight hours a week.

Lisa Isom 00:18:40 And that’s keeping me behind on estimating or keeping behind on whatever their, you know, main tasks were. And it was like, oh, what am I doing? That is that same way. And then I’ve had clients that have come to me that are doing multi-million dollar companies. They’re like, well, we didn’t think we could afford an accountant. And then we dive in and we’re like, you wasted so much money by not getting an accountant when you should have, which we like to get in, you know, pretty much in the front. And even if we’re just assisting a little bit here and there, because we can help people with major pitfalls and bring our network of people to, to them. But yeah, this one client literally was paying the IRS $10,000 a month and had no idea what that money was for. And then we found out that they just hadn’t done their payroll reporting. And once we did it, they got a refund because they’ve been doing that for two years thinking they couldn’t afford an accountant.

Lisa Isom 00:19:33 So a lot of those big mistakes, you know, can happen by not getting the right people in your team early. And I think that’s the biggest issue is that people think they can’t afford anyone. But there are people that are in almost every price range. And you know, for us, a small business that’s just starting with that needs a bookkeeper. We probably are not that fit because of how we’ve structured our business. But there’s always people that do that and that that’s what they love to do. You’re the perfect size client and their prices are reasonable, and it makes sense to get that team put together as fast as you can, even if you outgrow them at some point. Yeah.

Betty Wang 00:20:09 Speaking of, I read a lot of business books too. Do you have any recommendations for listeners and for me?

Lisa Isom 00:20:15 Oh my gosh. There is a book or favorites.

Betty Wang 00:20:19 How about favorites?

Lisa Isom 00:20:20 Yeah, there is a book called real Self-care. And that it’s not about bubble baths. And I apologize that I could have the name slightly wrong, but it really is about boundaries for women, especially on how to, with their life and business and personal, how to put good boundaries and put yourself first.

Lisa Isom 00:20:40 Because I think especially when you are a mom, especially a single mom, you’re not putting yourself first on a regular basis. And you do think taking a bubble bath is self-care. And that’s not, as the book says, real self-care. It’s about putting boundaries and putting yourself first at times and, you know, really changing the lens that you’re looking at yourself through, which I think is hard to do when you’re so busy.

Betty Wang 00:21:03 Yeah, no, I’ll definitely take a look at that. So I promised tax tips. And in addition to the work you do for corporations and businesses, you also do do personal income tax preparation. Yes. Are there common tax deductions that people overlook that people should know about?

Lisa Isom 00:21:23 Oh, absolutely. I think that years ago, deducting a home office was shied away from because people had heard that the IRS audits that and it’s a red flag. And to that I say it’s a real deduction. If you choose not to take that because you’re afraid that it’s going to cause an IRS audit if you’re taking it correctly.

Lisa Isom 00:21:43 That should not be a consideration. You could be walking away from hundreds and thousands of dollars over the lifetime of your business because of a fear for an audit, which, you know, we don’t see that happening. And I know that the IRS has additional funding and look, can look at those things. But I think that people now really understand home offices and are taking the expenses correctly. Software has made a big difference in in making that an easier deduction for people to do. So. Don’t be shy away from a deduction just because you heard that it could be a red flag like auto mileage and some things like that. If you’re a solopreneur or a single member LLC, you should take what you have. Just make sure you’ve got the good records to support it. But there’s no need to leave money. You know, we hand it over to the IRS just because of a fear that you’re going to be audited. That just doesn’t happen that often. One of the things that we see a lot of which is, you know, heartbreaking to be the messenger on, is that people have rental properties.

Lisa Isom 00:22:38 And we especially get people coming to us when they sell the rental properties. But they’ve been, you know, doing their taxes on their own for all these years. And they decided not to take depreciation because they felt like, you know, that was risky or it was above their knowledge base. But what happens is when you sell that rental property, that depreciation is recaptured and comes back at you as income. And it doesn’t matter if you didn’t take it. So the IRS, they’re not giving you a break because you chose not to take that deduction. That deduction still has to be recorded as if you had taken it. We can only go back three years. And so then all of a sudden you get a tax bill for something you didn’t actually take as a tax deduction. So people can be heartbroken when they find out.

Betty Wang 00:23:18 That seems almost unfair right.

Lisa Isom 00:23:20 Well from the IRS standpoint.

Betty Wang 00:23:23 There are kind of double taxed in a sense.

Lisa Isom 00:23:26 Yeah. Because they didn’t take the deduction that the IRS says you have to.

Betty Wang 00:23:29 Oh that’s interesting.

Lisa Isom 00:23:31 So that’s one of the harder things to tell people, especially when they’ve had a property for, you know, decades that were recapturing depreciation that they never recorded and took as a deduction. So that one’s very painful.

Betty Wang 00:23:44 Could you explain that a little bit more in layman’s terms for folks who don’t understand what depreciation is?

Lisa Isom 00:23:52 Yeah, absolutely. So when you buy a property that is a rental property or a business property, but I’m going to use rental because that goes under your personal taxes. And it’s easier to understand you are going to depreciate the value of the business minus the land. The land doesn’t depreciate. But you take that. Over so many years, 27.5 is the typical. So you take a piece of that. So that percentage one 27.5 per year for the 27.5 years in this example. So if you had a property that was valued at $100,000, You would be slowly depreciating that over each year to the point where then that is fully depreciated after. Like I said, for the life is 27.5 years over 27.5 years.

Lisa Isom 00:24:37 So let’s say you bought the property for 100,000. You kept it for 30 years. You didn’t take that depreciation because you didn’t understand that you go to sell the property. Not only will you have the gain, but you also would have that $100,000 worth of depreciation that should have been taken, added to the gain that you already had in the appreciation of the building. So wow, in today’s world, if you would have sold that building for $1 million that you paid 100,000 for, you cannot take the depreciation at that time. So instead that $100,000 gets added in as if you had already taken it. So it just adds another $100,000 to your gain and your taxable income. So it can be a really painful lesson to learn. Yeah.

Betty Wang 00:25:25 Hi there. Thanks for listening to Betty’s Smart friends. Here’s a quick money tip that I share with clients. Automate your savings. Set up automatic transfers to your savings accounts to ensure you consistently save a portion of your income. This can help you build an emergency fund and save for future goals without having to think about it.

Betty Wang 00:25:46 Remember, you’re not alone. Now back to the show. Are there other tax myths that you see come up often?

Lisa Isom 00:25:57 I think people have gotten a little confused, like back in the day we had on reimbursed business expenses from the IRS. You know, that has been taken off as a deduction. So people have kind of gotten shied away from everything on your schedule. A so charitable giving is an example. Medical expenses which are limited. But a lot of times when you factor in what your health insurance out-of-pocket costs are, deductibles, all those things you don’t always need a big medical year to qualify depending on your income level. So a lot of times when we see people that state that they had medical expenses, but they think they’re just talking about out of pocket, not the health insurance piece of that. They can choose not to even give us those figures. I could be missing out on those deductions. Again, charitable giving. A lot of people don’t understand how cash versus donating a property, whether it’s thrift store value or, you know, artwork, stock, all those type of things that come up.

Lisa Isom 00:26:56 You should run it by your tax person because you don’t want to leave those deductions not taken. It can make a difference of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Things that you just don’t realize could have such an impact.

Betty Wang 00:27:08 And how are you preparing your personal clients for the possible onset of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act? The larger standard deduction, I think, had people moving most people, which was the intent of it. Right. What’s the most people moving away from that?

Lisa Isom 00:27:24 You know, especially our businesses that are escorts. They’ve been used to some credits that are saving them quite a bit on taxes. But generally everyone is affected by this. And of course, we don’t know what that is going to look like in the future either. So it’s not that we have a solution for everything because some of these things are still up in the air. The last handful of years, we’ve had changes even happening in the beginning of the year, where we can’t do anything proactively because the year is already over or about to be over.

Lisa Isom 00:27:57 So, you know, we are pushing tax planning more than usual to make sure that people really understand what’s coming up and what could happen so that we can make really educated decisions at the end of the year. This is the perfect time to have those conversations, to see if there’s anything that maybe should be considered. And then next year, of course, we’ll be hitting it again really hard because it’s hard to keep up on all these tax changes. And it’s overwhelming even for us, because they’ve got different names and different acronyms and we’re like, what is what is that one again? And what does that have to do with, you know, this or that? So it’s a really daunting task for any of us to try on our own to keep up on all these tax changes. And software is super helpful. Like that definitely helps walk you through it. But that’s just the tax preparation that doesn’t help you with making decisions that can help you saving taxes. And you know, there’s definitely conversations to be had about when should you sell certain things or, you know, liquidate or get into retirement or all of these things based on taxes that could radically change over the next couple of years.

Lisa Isom 00:29:05 And so getting that advice, you know, really is worth the money. We see that our fees for someone going through tax planning are paid for many times over by making better decisions from a tax perspective.

Betty Wang 00:29:18 Absolutely. We’re coming across from my side of the street. A lot of CPAs, a lot of accounting firms moving away from the tax planning because they are so darn busy. Right. And and we’re also in our noticing, you know, my firm does a lot of tax planning and more and more financial advisors are doing it because investments and tax planning and your whole financial ecosystem. Right. They all touch each other and it’s really important for them to touch. So I think your firm is maybe not rare but stands out because you do do tax planning because some firms just want to do your taxes. That’s all they have time for. As you are saying, there are not many accountants or wannabe accountants coming up. So what we’re seeing is that a lot of the older firms aren’t taking to clients and don’t have time to do tax planning for their current clients.

Betty Wang 00:30:15 Not to say that they’re not helpful, it’s just they’re busy, right?

Lisa Isom 00:30:20 Yeah, they are busy. And I will tell you, after being in this industry for, you know, 35 years, that being the messenger and saying, oh yeah, here’s your tax return and I’m sorry, but you have 50,000 and it’s too bad we didn’t talk this fall because we would have had you do this, that or the other that would have saved you half of that. And I don’t really put it out like that because that’s pretty brutal. But that’s what’s going on in my head when I’m the messenger for that. So, you know, we’re not a churn and burn firm. So we’re not one of those firms. That is the volume. Can we do 700 tax returns in a year? Sure we could. But that’s not going to give the outcome to our clients. And that’s not really our philosophy. We want that relationship. We want to know what’s going on in people’s lives. We want to provide that extra fee, that resource for them from a tax perspective.

Lisa Isom 00:31:10 And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the firms that are wanting to do that high volume that works really well for them. It’s just not a great fit for us.

Betty Wang 00:31:18 We’re basically saying most people, I would say the majority of people do need tax guidance. And we’re also saying that it’s hard to find accountants to help them. I mean, what are your. First of all, who’s a good fit for your firm as a private client?

Lisa Isom 00:31:36 Yeah, I think that, you know, we obviously because we spend a little more time, we’re relational, and we want you to pick up the phone and tell us when you have a life event that is happening, like you’re you’ve lost a family member, you’re coming into an inheritance, all of those things. We want to be on top of that and help you get through that from a tax perspective. So for us, you know, people that really just want to pay the fee, get the taxes and walk away, that’s not a great fit for us.

Lisa Isom 00:32:04 We really like the people that appreciate having someone that will be responsive to them, and that they can ask the questions throughout the year, too. So that being proactive and appreciating that. And like I said, we don’t we’re not the right fit for everyone. If you are that kind of person, we do a lot of work with women, you know, with the majority of our staff as women. And not that that you can’t support women in a great way. But I think when you have been a single mom, it’s a lot easier to understand and explain to someone, you know, what an earned income credit is and how they can utilize that on their own taxes, how they qualify for head of household. You know, the things that are a little nuanced and sometimes really overwhelming for women to try to understand. So we’re really great at taking the time to explain that. And we try not to use what we call account knees. Sometimes it gets a little hard, but we try to be, you know, very.

Betty Wang 00:32:58 When we go on the depreciation discussion. Right. But that’s these are the words we’ve been given.

Lisa Isom 00:33:04 Exactly. And it is just like every industry has its own, you know, vocabulary. Obviously accounting does. But you know we’ll approach it from different aspects. Some people need the visual explanation, you know. We’ll take that time to make it so that it’s easier for people to understand. And then with businesses again, we do a lot of creatives. A lot of women owned. But we’re also very proactive with them in trying to help them make good financial decisions. And one of the other things that I think has come up a lot, and it’s going to come up by the IRS, is they’re looking at reasonable compensation for S Corp and C Corp. And, you know, that’s a big issue where people have the guidance on that has changed a lot. But it can really cause a lot of problems for people. And the IRS has said they’re going to start looking at that and auditing. And they’re even making us as a firm responsible for reasonable comp.

Lisa Isom 00:33:56 So as the IRS is getting more funding, I think the need is going to become greater and greater for people to be more proactive with their taxes.

Betty Wang 00:34:03 And if Minerva is not the right fit for them. How do you recommend women find an accountant that might work for them or what accreditations are there. I mean, you know, all of us know CPR, but there’s also the E, which maybe you can explain what all the different accreditations are. What’s important if you want to have good advice.

Lisa Isom 00:34:25 Yeah. And I think that it’s we’ve also grown as an industry that credentials aren’t as important as they used to be. Because, you know, we have found that experience and we have found that just the changing of the landscape have made that change slightly. I mean, a CPA is more of a generalist. I mean, they’re definitely really difficult tests. They’ve got ethics. They’ve got, you know, to understand financial statements, auditing tax. Like they really have the whole shebang as far as you know, they’re that certification.

Lisa Isom 00:34:57 We have an E on staff who’s amazing and E is an enrolled agent. They are only focused on tax. So the perspective of an E typically they’re less of a generalist. And they have dove into You specific things within taxes and they can represent you. Aria can go and help you with those tax remediation conversations. So if you have an overdue, you know, having file taxes, one of those situations which there’s no judgment on, everyone has life. Get life.

Betty Wang 00:35:29 Right.

Lisa Isom 00:35:29 It happens and it happens. And so getting someone who is really skilled and knowledgeable and certified to do that is really an amazing thing, because we can help a lot with the IRS tries to scare us with big numbers. So you’re like, oh wait, I owed 10,000. Wait, how did it become 40? Because of penalties and interest, and they’re trying to get you to move and do something. And so getting a professional that can help you walk through that is also super helpful. You can get into all kinds of credentials.

Lisa Isom 00:35:58 There’s Cdfis which are certified fraud examiners that really work on, you know, looking in forensically going into someone’s financials to find things. There’s CFA certified Financial analysis and I can go on and on and on. So the credentials really help you find those specialties and a new knowledge base that will help you in a specific situations.

Betty Wang 00:36:22 If they’re looking at different firms or even smaller accounting firms, you wouldn’t say they have to have a CPA or an E on staff, or as long as they’ve been a reputable business, or how can they feel comfortable saying, okay, those initials hold my hand, that these people are somebody, but these tests have at least vetted them, right? So if you’re going in blind, what would you say? I mean, obviously your gut. I feel like we have good spidey senses, but is there anything that you would look for other than maybe, as you’re saying, five years of being in business, two years or what? What would you recommend?

Lisa Isom 00:37:04 Yeah, because I also think that, you know, we have hired people who have great credentials.

Lisa Isom 00:37:11 Who have not been great tax preparers or accountants. So the credentials aren’t everything right?

Betty Wang 00:37:18 And we see that. Yeah. Across industries for sure.

Lisa Isom 00:37:21 Yeah. Yeah that that’s you know. Yes. You have something behind your name that’s great.

Betty Wang 00:37:25 But that you’re smart enough to pass a test. Awesome.

Lisa Isom 00:37:28 Yes. Yes. You’re a great student. You’re a great test taker but doesn’t mean that you’re great at that industry. So experience is huge. I think one of the benefits is we have grown, is getting that breadth of knowledge and expertise where we have people that have come from corporate, come from different industries. You know, they’ve got more of a breadth of experience working hands on in different industries or have seen and experienced different things that, you know, gives them that additional experience. I think it’s tough. I mean, when I started, obviously I was very green. And I think it’s tough to, you know, trust that someone has enough years of experience to be able to have that breadth of knowledge, because you can learn a lot of things in a book.

Lisa Isom 00:38:11 But until you’re out and living it and seeing those different quirks, yes, you know, it makes it really tough to do that. So I think a lot of times accountants go and work for the big firms to get that under their belt before they go out on their own. And that’s, you know, valuable time for them to be mentored and to get real life experience. So I think those are the things that I look for the most. And obviously, personality and having a fit where you feel comfortable with someone, oh my gosh, that’s going to trump a lot of that. Because if you don’t feel like you can come and talk to that person openly, money’s intimate. So whether it’s in your field or my field, people disclosing their money and what they’ve done with it and the mistakes we’ve all made mistakes with money and having to be open with that is terrifying. And if you feel like someone is not hearing you, doesn’t, you know it’s not a good personality. Click. It’s going to just take that to the next level of, you know, not getting what you need from those services.

Betty Wang 00:39:13 I agree 100%. What other advice do you have for especially women who are looking to go into retirement when it comes to their taxes? What should they be thinking about from a tax perspective?

Lisa Isom 00:39:24 Yeah, I mean, I think one of the the bigger things is, you know, getting what someone like Betty and her firm, and working in tangent together, we share some clients, which I think is hugely beneficial because you have a certain amount of information that the client doesn’t always think to give us. And, you know, for us, we can ask some great questions about like what things can be converted to a Roth when they’re thinking about retirement. You know, some selling, some appreciated investments or depreciation investments that take advantage of where they are right now. From a tax perspective that may go away during retirement or radically change during retirement. So you know those type of conversations about things that we can strategically look at that will take advantage of a tax, an existing tax bracket, or one that’s going to happen when you retire, is such a pivotal time to have those conversations, because we can’t do it once you’ve done it, once you’ve moved out of that tax bracket and retired.

Lisa Isom 00:40:26 Just it’s tough. Yeah.

Betty Wang 00:40:28 It makes me sad when we’ve when I’ve had clients who’ve come to me after where there’s things that could have been done. I mean, it is what it is and we move on from there. But it is true the earlier we have these conversations before they retire or before they downshift from their career, then we can be much more proactive and save the money and sometimes a lot of money. Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:40:53 Yeah, a ton of money.

Betty Wang 00:40:55 A lot, a lot of money. Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:40:56 And especially if you’re selling a business, you know. Yeah. We always tell people if you think you’re five years out, you better start right now. It’s 3 to 5 years out. To really make sure that we can work with someone like Betty. We can, you know, really understand what your goals are after selling the business so that we can really set up the tax situation to be the best it can, because a lot of times people are looking at huge sums of money.

Lisa Isom 00:41:22 They’ve worked their whole lives for an amazing business. They finally get the payout. The last thing you want to do is hand out hand the IRS, you know, just a sure percentage off the top. When there are so many things we can do to protect that, and that just brings joy to me too. You know, we want to give the IRS what they deserve and what they need, not what they need. That’s a bad word.

Betty Wang 00:41:44 Yeah. What? Yeah. What we owe. We’re happy. Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:41:48 We want to get to that line and, you know, get it down as far as we can without crossing any lines or making anyone uncomfortable. But to just pay off the top and see all that money go when we could have saved it. Oh. It’s horrible.

Betty Wang 00:42:02 Yes. Well, I tell clients, think of the especially with their retirement accounts. And think of the IRS. Think of the government as your business partner. Right. And they’re going to get their cut.

Betty Wang 00:42:15 And we’re fine with paying what their cut is. But we don’t want to pay a tip. Right. We don’t want to overpay if we don’t have to. Right. If there’s ways that we can mitigate that within the bounds of the law. Right. And we’re not doing anything sketchy. It’s it’s more that there’s so many different pieces of tax that like you said, it’s so intimidating that people just don’t know about.

Lisa Isom 00:42:38 Yeah. If you’re selling a big piece of property and haven’t looked at a 1031 exchange because you know you’re going to down the road, you want to do that? Well, it’s very limited on time. So a lot of people kind of are all in the glow of selling and getting this amount of money and they’re like, oh, in the next two years I’m going to find something else. Well, we really need to talk about it way before then.

Betty Wang 00:42:59 Yeah, because you got to find a property to buy. Pretty quick. Okay.

Lisa Isom 00:43:04 Yes. Yeah. You’re very limited on that time frame.

Lisa Isom 00:43:07 So starting those conversations, getting your team together, I think that is probably one of the most important aspects that you’re going through. Major life changes is finding your team of people that you may not be talking to, but once a year or but knowing them and being comfortable with them, getting a base relationship started so that when you come up to these events, you are really knowing that team is behind you. You have confidence in them. You know how they’re going to work together is so beneficial, rather than at the last minute asking every friend and family member that you know, hey, do you know somebody that you know can help me with this life event? And these are all the specialists I.

Betty Wang 00:43:48 Need, right?

Lisa Isom 00:43:49 It’s not going to be your team.

Betty Wang 00:43:50 Well, and especially in your industry where your industry is stretched. Right. There’s so last minute is, first of all, it’s stressful for the person looking for somebody, but they might not find the best right fit. If they’re in a time crunch.

Betty Wang 00:44:06 Because it also depends on what you know the accountants are looking at and what their workflow is like. So yes, especially for that piece of it, I really think you’re right. Building a base is great. And so then you’re dialed in and you’re ready to go.

Lisa Isom 00:44:21 Well, and I probably know more firms that aren’t taking new clients than firms that are.

Betty Wang 00:44:26 Yeah, I would say that’s my experience too. Well, I guess we’re scaring people into going to find an accountant. So I like to also, since this is a podcast for women over the age of 45 or what have you, and a lot of we’re all very busy with family and life and work. How do you keep yourself centered when you’re building and growing? I mean, it’s super successful now, but you’re continuing to grow. That takes a lot of time and stress, and you have a family and a personal life. How do you keep yourself centered amongst all this stuff?

Lisa Isom 00:45:02 Yeah. This stuff.

Betty Wang 00:45:03 Good stuff. But there’s also, as you said, with the real self-care, I mean, how do you protect yourself, maybe with boundaries or how do you center yourself? Because it’s hard.

Betty Wang 00:45:14 Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:45:15 Well, and I think it’s also interesting as we get to this age too, that, you know, our children are getting older, they’re not dependent on us. Like there’s a lot of things changing in our identity. And so, you know, there is kind of a need to not reinvent ourselves, but part of our lives need to be, you know, tweaked a little bit. I found myself, you know, developing friendships through people that I’ve met professionally that are women of, you know, similar age and experience and experiences where before that it was a lot of like my kids, parents and things like that. So I think the pool of people that I choose to spend time with have become more and more like me, which has been really helpful too, you because I think when you aren’t an entrepreneur and there’s nothing wrong with that. I mean, good for you finding a job that works. You know, it’s.

Betty Wang 00:46:05 Not an easy thing.

Lisa Isom 00:46:07 No, it’s not an easy gig.

Lisa Isom 00:46:09 But I think surrounding yourself with more women who are entrepreneurs as we get older, it’s been really helpful for me to stay centered and have someone who I can say, gosh, this part of my business right now is a huge struggle. And I’m, you know, kind of falling apart about it. They understand what that means. I love my friends that aren’t entrepreneurs who I also kudos to. But when I say that to them, they’re like, oh, okay, so you’re complaining about I don’t even know what that means or I cannot relate. So I think that has been something that has happened probably in the last ten years, that has made a huge difference in how I can, you know, really keep centered is because I have a group of friends that are more in the same world, women. And that’s been helpful. And then, you know, just like that book. Having books that really remind you about keeping your boundaries. Because that, to me, is given me permission to not be so much of a people pleaser and to say no more.

Lisa Isom 00:47:07 And, you know, just put myself first a little bit more than I was before. And, you know, that’s just leading to a better, quieter, more centered life.

Betty Wang 00:47:17 Yeah. I’m going to buy that book after we get off this call.

Lisa Isom 00:47:21 Yes.

Lisa Isom 00:47:21 Yeah, I recommend it. It’s been.

Betty Wang 00:47:23 Great. And then also, I work with women who are thinking about retirement in retirement. And studies show that people who have passions or hobbies going into retirement are much more content and confident in retirement. And, you know, as somebody who works a lot or who just has kids and haven’t had time to focus on what they love. I’m I’m in the search for for ideas and maybe it’ll help others. So do you have passions or hobbies that you love that might spark somebody else’s interest?

Lisa Isom 00:47:59 Yeah, I found that kayaking for me was absolutely an amazing experience because I could go and paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle, you know, where myself out. But then I could just lay there on the kayak, feeling the waves from the lake, just moving me up and down, sitting in the sun and outside breathing the air.

Lisa Isom 00:48:22 So it really gave me that exercise and that, you know, wearing myself out, but then just gave me that peace to just sit in the quiet in nature with the little movement going. And so that became something I was not expecting when I took up kayaking. I used to be a just a reader, voracious reader. And then when kids and business and all of that kind of lost track of it. So, you know, I’ve been really looking at things that used to give me a lot of pleasure. I used to do some needlework and things like that as well. Before having kids and when I just had my daughter. And so we have really kind of, sort of reinvestigated the things that I used to love. And then, you know, just being open to trying new things too, because I think that’s the amazing part. As we expand our network and our friends and get to this new place in life is that, you know, I barely ever say no when someone brings me an idea that normally I’d be like, oh, I don’t have time for that.

Lisa Isom 00:49:19 And I’m like, wait, wait, wait, I haven’t done that. I want to just do it. Yeah, like, just make the time.

Betty Wang 00:49:25 Try everything once. Right. Yeah.

Lisa Isom 00:49:28 Absolutely.

Betty Wang 00:49:29 Yes. And then you never know. You never know what you’ll like. Well, thank you so much for sharing and for spending your time today here with me and the listeners. Do you have anything else that you want to share that we haven’t covered, that maybe women haven’t thought about or from an entrepreneur standpoint? Last words of wisdom.

Lisa Isom 00:49:49 Nothing is coming to mind other than I know a lot of people out there, if you’ve been an entrepreneur once, you can easily fall into becoming a serial entrepreneur, and which is my case. I have two other businesses that are happening concurrently with my accounting business. And so I think that, you know, sometimes we think there’s something wrong with us when we have that bug that we just can’t let go of. But I think the most important thing with that too, is to that’s your passion, you know, what is your mission.

Lisa Isom 00:50:18 And and owning that. And then to just keep in mind to take care of yourself and to still have an exit plan. Because for a long time I thought, I’ll never retire. And, you know, sometimes we don’t have control over that. So you’ve got to be working on that too.

Betty Wang 00:50:32 Yeah, well, actually, studies show that most of us don’t get to decide when we’re retired. It’s decided for us for one reason or another. Thank you again for all of your time.

Lisa Isom 00:50:43 Well, thank you for.

Lisa Isom 00:50:43 Having me, Betty. You know, you’re one of my favorite people on the planet.

Betty Wang 00:50:47 I love you, too.

Lisa Isom 00:50:48 And so.

Lisa Isom 00:50:49 I.

Lisa Isom 00:50:50 Am.

Lisa Isom 00:50:50 So.

Lisa Isom 00:50:50 Happy to have been honored by the request to join your podcast. Thank you.

Lisa Isom 00:50:55 Appreciate you.

Betty Wang 00:50:57 Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Betty Smart Friends. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation and that you learn something new. You can connect with us on social media to stay updated on future episodes. Share your thoughts and join our community of smart friends.

Betty Wang 00:51:15 You can find us on Instagram at Betty Financial, and don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode! If you are feeling ready to be more empowered and less alone in your financial life, please schedule a complimentary 15 minutes with me. The link is in the show notes. Please see the show notes for important disclosures regarding BW financial planning and this episode. Until next time, remember you are not alone. We got you.

Betty Wang is an investment adviser representative of BW Financial LLC, a registered investment adviser registered in the State of Colorado. Registration does not imply a certain level of skill or training. The views and opinions expressed are as of the date of publication and are subject to change. The content is for informational or educational purposes only, and is not intended as individualized investment advice. This information should not be relied upon as the sole factor in an investment-making decision. You are encouraged to consult with a financial professional to address your specific needs and circumstances.